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Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 15:29:36 +0200
From: "" <>
Subject: Re: Passphrases: syntax vs entropy

On 04/09/2016 12:23 PM, Patrick Proniewski wrote:
> On 09 avr. 2016, at 10:36, wrote:
>>> I trust you on the math here, but I'm skeptical about your hypothesis.
>>> You take into account the full Oxford English Dictionary,
>>> [but] a "real" dictionary is probably 3000 to 10000 words long.
>>> You state that W^8/7294 [...] is significantly greater than W^7,
>>> but that's true only for W > 7294.
>>> For most users, W might be lower than 7294
>> You forgot the premise. we are not talking about protecting every individual user, we are talking about the properties of the passwords!
>> The question is: does this password creation scheme provide sufficient protection? Yes it does.
> Ok. I'm almost always thinking as the attacker, being my-self a "hobbyist" user of JtR. It helps a lot when I need to teach a user about what is a bad/poor password choice. This bias does not help much when I come across a work like yours. Thanks for the explanations.

It is a good bias too, when we understand the "game" we need to know the 
strategies of the both sides.
You gave us an important clue: passphrases composed of "commonly used 
words" will have priority in the attacker's dictionary.

That improves our global understanding of the password strength.

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