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Message-ID: <8e65a459-a933-38b4-5f82-f7016c107d91@cs.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 00:11:20 -0700
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@...ucla.edu>
To: Rich Felker <dalias@...c.org>
Cc: linux-man@...r.kernel.org, musl@...ts.openwall.com,
libc-alpha@...rceware.org, libc-coord@...ts.openwall.com
Subject: Re: regression in man pages for interfaces using loff_t
On 2023-06-28 12:15, Rich Felker wrote:
> There's also the problem that off64_t is "exactly 64-bit" which makes
> it unsuitable as an interface type for cross-platform functions where
> one could imagine the native type being larger (rather horrifying but
> possible).
Although we won't have files with 2**63 bytes any time soon, this is the
best argument for preferring "loff_t" to "off64_t".
But come to think of it, it'd be better to document the type simply as
"off_t", with a footnote saying the equivalent of "this assumes that on
32-bit glibc platforms you compile with -DFILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 like any
sane person would." The intent really is off_t here, and that will
remain true even if off_t ever widens past 64 bits.
All the apps I know that use the syscalls in question simply pass
values that fit in off_t to these functions, and this will work
regardless of whether these apps are compiled with 64- or (horrors!)
32-bit off_t. Admittedly the footnote solution would not be perfect, but
it's good enough, and it would sidestep the loff_t vs off64_t confusion.
> As for why off64_t is not an appropriate type, it's defined by and
> associated with the LFS64 summit and the related intefaces, and
> governed by them. Using it makes these interfaces non-standardizable,
> because no standard is going to adopt a function whose public
> interface depends on another optional thing they don't want to
> mandate.
I don't see why not. For example, POSIX-2018 requires int32_t even
though C17 says it's optional. So there's precedent for POSIX adopting a
type that's optional elsewhere.
Also, to POSIX loff_t is just as optional as off64_t is. glibc defines
neither type if the app #defines _POSIX_C_SOURCE as POSIX requires. So
from a standardization viewpoint there's no reason to prefer one type
over the other.
> This is exactly the problem why ISO C is stuck with the
> broken and unusable fseek/ftell that take long, and hasn't adopted
> fseeko/ftello from POSIX -- their public interfaces use the
> POSIX-governed type off_t, and as such, ISO C adopting them without
> adopting the whole POSIX off_t is out of the question.
I'm not sure what the point is here, as far as standardization goes.
Neither ISO C nor POSIX use loff_t, and neither is likely to ever use
it: ISO C won't even adopt off_t much less loff_t, and POSIX works just
fine with off_t and doesn't need loff_t. (The same goes for off64_t of
course.)
> As a particular practical concern, applications performing
> configure-like tests may use the existence of an off64_t type to
> conclude that the LFS64 API is supported on the system they're being
> built on.
Which apps do that?
But anyway this is all moot if we simply document the arguments as off_t
with a footnote.
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