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Message-ID: <202109301121.7644668F3F@keescook>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:28:20 -0700
From: Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>
To: Petr Mladek <pmladek@...e.com>
Cc: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>,
Alexander Popov <alex.popov@...ux.com>,
Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
Joerg Roedel <jroedel@...e.de>, Maciej Rozycki <macro@...am.me.uk>,
Muchun Song <songmuchun@...edance.com>,
Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@...aro.org>,
Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@....com>,
Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
Lu Baolu <baolu.lu@...ux.intel.com>,
Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@...nel.org>, Wei Liu <wl@....org>,
John Ogness <john.ogness@...utronix.de>,
Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@...ux.intel.com>,
Alexey Kardashevskiy <aik@...abs.ru>,
Christophe Leroy <christophe.leroy@...roup.eu>,
Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
Thomas Garnier <thgarnie@...gle.com>,
Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>,
Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@...aro.org>,
Laura Abbott <labbott@...hat.com>,
David S Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>, kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com,
linux-hardening@...r.kernel.org, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, notify@...nel.org,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Introduce the pkill_on_warn boot parameter
On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:15:41AM +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
> On Wed 2021-09-29 12:49:24, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:01:33PM +0300, Alexander Popov wrote:
> > > On 29.09.2021 21:58, Alexander Popov wrote:
> > > > Currently, the Linux kernel provides two types of reaction to kernel
> > > > warnings:
> > > > 1. Do nothing (by default),
> > > > 2. Call panic() if panic_on_warn is set. That's a very strong reaction,
> > > > so panic_on_warn is usually disabled on production systems.
>
> Honestly, I am not sure if panic_on_warn() or the new pkill_on_warn()
> work as expected. I wonder who uses it in practice and what is
> the experience.
panic_on_warn() gets used by folks with paranoid security concerns.
> The problem is that many developers do not know about this behavior.
> They use WARN() when they are lazy to write more useful message or when
> they want to see all the provided details: task, registry, backtrace.
The documentation[1] on this hopefully clarifies the situation:
Note that the WARN()-family should only be used for “expected to be
unreachable” situations. If you want to warn about “reachable but
undesirable” situations, please use the pr_warn()-family of functions.
System owners may have set the panic_on_warn sysctl, to make sure their
systems do not continue running in the face of “unreachable” conditions.
[1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/deprecated.html#bug-and-bug-on
> Also it is inconsistent with pr_warn() behavior. Why a single line
> warning would be innocent and full info WARN() cause panic/pkill?
Because pr_warn() is intended for system admins. WARN() is for
developers and should not be reachable through any known path.
> What about pr_err(), pr_crit(), pr_alert(), pr_emerg()? They inform
> about even more serious problems. Why a warning should cause panic/pkill
> while an alert message is just printed?
Additionally, pr_*() don't include stack traces, etc. WARN() is for
situations that should never happen. pr_warn() is about undesirable but
reachable states.
For example:
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d4689846881d160a4d12a514e991a740bcb5d65a
> It somehow reminds me the saga with %pK. We were not able to teach
> developers to use it correctly for years and ended with hashed
> pointers.
And this was pointed out when %pK was introduced, but Linus couldn't be
convinced. He changed his mind, thankfully.
--
Kees Cook
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