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Message-ID: <20120311094039.GB26640@openwall.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:40:39 +0400
From: Solar Designer <solar@...nwall.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc: Djalal Harouni <tixxdz@...ndz.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com,
Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@...il.com>,
"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
Vasiliy Kulikov <segoon@...nwall.com>,
Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
WANG Cong <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>,
James Morris <james.l.morris@...cle.com>,
Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>,
linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org,
linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Greg KH <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
Stephen Wilson <wilsons@...rt.ca>,
"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/9] exec: add a global execve counter
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 04:12:20PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Djalal Harouni <tixxdz@...ndz.org> wrote:
> >
> > Given that consideration this patch introduces two counters:
> > A global atomic execve counter that will be incremented on every
> > do_execve_common() call, and an atomic exec_id member for the task_struct.
>
> This seems horribly expensive on most 32-bit architectures, including
> very much x86-32. That atomic64_inc_return() is not cheap. It's
> possible that it's basically an impossible operation to do atomically
> on certain platforms, causing it to use some random spinlock instead.
I think these are _relatively_ cheap considering that it's execve().
If we can do e.g. 10 million of atomic64_inc_return()'s per second (and
I think we can do a lot more, although I did not benchmark this), but
only 10000 of execve()'s per second, then the performance impact is 0.1%.
I admit that 0.1% is significant, but I used worst-case guesstimates
here; the actual number might be more like 0.01% (50 million vs. 5 thousand)
or even 0.002% (200 million vs. 4 thousand). (200 million is 15 CPU
cycles at 3 GHz, which may be a reasonable optimistic estimate.
4 thousand is a realistic execve() speed for dynamically-linked programs.)
> I wonder if we couldn't make something much cheaper, since we don't
> actually care about it being globally incrementing, we just care about
> it being globally unique. IOW, it could easily be a 56-bit per-cpu
> counter along with the CPU number in the high bits or something like
> that. Avoiding the whole atomicity issue, and thus avoiding the main
> reason those things are really expensive.
>
> IOW, something like
>
> cpu = get_cpu();
> .. increment percpu 64-bit counter ..
> id = counter * MAX_CPUS + cpu;
> put_cpu(cpu);
>
> or equivalent would seem to be a potentially much cheaper approach.
This makes sense to me. We just need to ensure that the per-CPU counter
is still large enough that it won't wrap. 56 bits is enough
(considering that the attack has to run on a single CPU of the target
system, unlike e.g. an attack on a cipher with a 56-bit key could be),
but there's little room for reducing this further (such as to support
many more than 256 CPUs in a system). So if we use this approach, maybe
we should simply keep a 64-bit per-CPU counter and a 32-bit CPU number,
for a 96-bit id. This may even be faster on execve() (no need to
combine the two values into one).
I don't know which one of these approaches has lower overhead on current
systems. My _guess_ is that atomic64_inc_return() may well be faster in
many cases.
Alexander
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