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Message-ID: <m1zkhh3l83.fsf@fess.ebiederm.org>
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 12:53:48 -0700
From: ebiederm@...ssion.com (Eric W. Biederman)
To: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge.hallyn@...onical.com>
Cc: Vasiliy Kulikov <segoon@...nwall.com>, Serge Hallyn <serge@...lyn.com>, akpm@...l.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org, containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org, dhowells@...hat.com, rdunlap@...otime.net, kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 01/15] add Documentation/namespaces/user_namespace.txt (v3)
ebiederm@...ssion.com (Eric W. Biederman) writes:
> "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge.hallyn@...onical.com> writes:
>
>> Quoting Vasiliy Kulikov (segoon@...nwall.com):
>>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 08:21 -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
>>> > > First, the patches by design expose much kernel code to unprivileged
>>> > > userspace processes. This code doesn't expect malformed data (e.g. VFS,
>>> > > specific filesystems, block layer, char drivers, sysadmin part of LSMs,
>>> > > etc. etc.). By relaxing permission rules you greatly increase attack
>>> > > surface of the kernel from unprivileged users. Are you (or somebody
>>> > > else) planning to audit this code?
>
> Well in theory this codes does expose this code to unprivileged user
> space in a way that increases the attack surface. However right now
> there are a lot of cases where because the kernel lacks a sufficient
> mechanism people are just given root provileges so that can get things
> done. Network manager controlling the network stack as an unprivileged
> user. Random filesystems on usb sticks being mounted and unmounted
> automatically when the usb sticks are inserted and removed.
>
> I completely agree that auditing and looking at the code is necessary I
> think most of what will happen is that we will start directly supporting
> how the kernel is actually used in the real world. Which should
> actually reduce our level of vulnerability, because we give up the
> delusion that large classes of operations don't need careful
> attention because only root can perform them. Operations which the
> user space authors turn around and write a suid binary for and
> unprivileged user space performs those operations all day long.
>
>>> > I had wanted to (but didn't) propose a discussion at ksummit about how
>>> > best to approach the filesystem code. That's not even just for user
>>> > namespaces - patches have been floated in the past to make mount an
>>> > unprivileged operation depending on the FS and the user's permission
>>> > over the device and target.
>>>
>>> This is a dangerous operation by itself.
>>
>> Of course it is :) And it's been a while since it has been brought up,
>> but it *was* quite well thought through and throrougly discussed - see
>> i.e. https://lkml.org/lkml/2008/1/8/131
>>
>> Oh, that's right. In the end the reason it didn't go in had to do with
>> the ability for an unprivileged user to prevent a privileged user from
>> unmounting trees by leaving a busy mount in a hidden namespace.
>>
>> Eric, in the past we didn't know what to do about that, but I wonder
>> if setns could be used in some clever way to solve it from userspace.
>
> Oh. That is a good objection. I had not realized that unprivileged
> mounts had that problem.
I just re-read the discussion you are referring to and that wasn't
it. Fuse already has something like a revoke in it's umount -f
implementation.
Eric
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