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Message-ID: <20110626194618.GA21740@elte.hu>
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 21:46:18 +0200
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>
To: Vasiliy Kulikov <segoon@...nwall.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>, Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...il.com>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...e.de>,
kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] kernel: escape non-ASCII and control characters in
printk()
* Vasiliy Kulikov <segoon@...nwall.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 20:26 +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> > > > Also, i think it would be better to make this opt-out, i.e.
> > > > exclude the handful of control characters that are harmful
> > > > (such as backline and console escape), instead of trying to
> > > > include the known-useful ones.
> > >
> > > Do you see any issue with the check above?
> >
> > There were clear problems with the first version you posted and
> > that's enough proof to request the exclusion of known-dangerous
> > characters instead of including known-useful characters.
>
> It doesn't proof anything. If I/someone else did a mistake with
> blacklisting would you say it is enough proof to request the
> inclusion of well-known allowed characters?
No, because the problems such a mistake causes are not equivalent: it
would have been far more harmful to not print out the *very real*
product names written in some non-US language than to accidentally
include some control character you did not think of.
> > A black list is well-defined: it disables the display of certain
> > characters because they are *known to be dangerous*.
>
> What do you do with dangerous characters that are *not yet known*
> to be dangerous?
I'm ready to act on facts only. Also, i really prefer the policy of
acting on known dangers instead of being afraid of the unknown.
The whole 'trust but verify' thing.
> > A white list on the other hand does it the wrong way around: it
> > tries to put the 'burden of proof' on the useful, good guys - and
> > that's counter-productive really.
>
> Really? I think strict API definition is productive, unlike using
> it in cases where it looks like working, but creating tricky and
> obscure bugs.
You werent really creating a well-defined API here, were you?
> Yes, drawing multicolor logs is funny, but ...egrrr... printk() is
> not written for these things.
maybe, but i still think that such a change works better, has fewer
unintended side effects and is better documented if it excludes known
dangers instead of trying to include known useful bits imperfectly.
Thanks,
Ingo
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