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Message-ID: <7c094b90-cd3b-44ba-b13e-e27bb54227da@caret.be> Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 16:16:28 +0200 From: Jens Timmerman <jens@...et.be> To: john-users@...ts.openwall.com Subject: Re: Markov phrases in john Hi, On 08/05/2024 12:34, Albert Veli wrote: > Hi, as many of you know a mask will not try combinations of characters > in alphabetical order but rather in the most likely to least likely order > using something like Markov chains: > > This is useful to find human-created passwords early. Nowadays it is more > and more popular to use combinations of words to create passwords. Would > it be possible to use Markov or similar to traverse entire words from a > wordlist and use the most common pair of adjacent words from the list > first, then the second most common and so on? I guess you could try to train a large language model on large lists of known leaed passphrases? These might perform better at learning the underlying patterns people use when thinking of passphrases than a simle markov model. However this might end up being computationally expensive, and probably also storage intensive if you want to create a nice list of passphrases. And that would be by design, I think the entire idea of using passphrases over passwords is that it makes password cracking a lot harder/more expensive. But it would be interesting to see the results of such an approach. Regards, Jens Timmerman
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