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Message-ID: <20120425165712.GF16795@openwall.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:57:12 +0400
From: Solar Designer <solar@...nwall.com>
To: john-dev@...ts.openwall.com
Subject: Re: NIST SHA-3 finalists - any thoughts on JtR support?
Hi Per,
Since we're not discussing JtR source code, but rather you have a
feature request, your posting would be more appropriate for john-users
than it is for john-dev. However, I'll reply in here since the thread
is already started here. (Maybe my posting re: Bitcoin mining in JtR
could be on john-users for the same reason.)
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 08:39:38AM +0200, Per Thorsheim wrote:
> Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha-3
>
> I've talked to Joan Daemen (AES), his team has the Keccak hash function
> as one of the 5 finalists in the NIST competition for SHA-3. I'm hoping
> to have him at Passwords^12 in December, independent of who wins the
> competition.
That's cool.
> So for the obvious question; any thoughts on implementing support for
> all finalists, eventually prepare for implementing support for the
> winner? After all we can expect a pretty wide deployment of it during
> the next couple of years. :-)
I'd like to naively hope that we won't see common direct misuse of these
for password hashing. Just like SHA-2 and older, these may reasonably
be used as crypto primitives with a KDF like PBKDF2, but they must not
be used for password hashing or as poor man's KDFs directly.
Thus, I'd rather not spend time on getting them supported by JtR in
their raw form. We need to see some real-world use first, then support
whatever is actually used in the real world.
As to the winner, there's expectation that it will be either Skein or
BLAKE since the rest are not faster than SHA-2 in software:
http://bench.cr.yp.to/graph-sha3/long.png
We'll see.
Alexander
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